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Re: [Full-disclosure] Full-Disclosure Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9

From: Mike Diack <mike_diack_at_nospam>
Date: Mon Jan 05 2009 - 15:32:43 GMT
To: <full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk>


Take this to a political / middle eastern mailing list. Let's get back to topic.  

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Subject: Full-Disclosure Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: The war in Palestine (Prototype This)
  2. Re: The war in Palestine (chort)
  3. Re: CCIE makes u go nuts?? or is that only nuts get CCIE???? (Some Guy Posting To Full Disclosure)
  4. Re: The war in Palestine (j-f sentier)
  5. Re: The war in Palestine (Paul Schmehl)
  6. Re: The (net)war in Palestine (Paul Schmehl)
  7. Re: The war in Palestine (Paul Schmehl)
  8. Re: The war in Palestine (Paul Schmehl)
  9. Re: The war in Palestine (Paul Schmehl)
  10. Re: The war in Palestine (Paul Schmehl)
  11. Re: The war in Palestine (Avraham Schneider)
  12. Re: The war in Palestine (Avraham Schneider)
  13. Re: The war in Palestine (- o z -)
  14. Re: The war in Palestine (Avraham Schneider)
  15. Re: The war in Palestine (Yudi Rosen)

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:41:43 +0000
From: "Prototype This" <terminale@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine To: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu
Cc: full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk
Message-ID:

        <b3d67c1a0901041541v69e3dec9x6742e0d64ec22c3a@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

A flame war never kill children and women. You dont receive a Flame email while you are sleeping or your 2 month old child get killed by it. If you dont want flame war you can always quit. With real war , you cannot. Even there no Mortar Filter or Bullet Catcher in real life. Personally i filter the n3tshit and ureleet email so i dont read their bullshit anymore. But tell me how could Palestinian do that (filter bomb from Isralis bomber to hit an hospital) ? 3000 victims and counting.

2009/1/4 <Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu>:
> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:22:00 +0200, Avraham Schneider said:
>> Not interested in continuing - was just responding to cheap >> propaganda started by an idiot. >
> You people can't even agree to stop a flame war.
>
> How do you expect the Israelis and Palestinians to stop a *real* war?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>


Message: 2
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 11:50:59 -0800
From: chort <chort0@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine To: "Mainbox Notif" <rokadeana@gmail.com> Cc: full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk, Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists_nada@tx.rr.com> Message-ID: <2a66a350901041150p5854687dy4fab485d26ab4394@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Mainbox Notif <rokadeana@gmail.com> wrote: >
> So, mr. Paul Schmehl,
> Can you tell me why the israelian want to have more and more? After
> they get a gift for their ppl?
> Thats what frustrating me the most.
> If you get something as a gift. And still want to have more.
> Thats not very thankful....
> Israeli are still guests. And welcome.
>
> When you (or someone else) can give me a good answer, I wil think again.
>
> Since they want to have more and more, they occupy more land surround
> them . ( the homes of innocent Palestinian ppl) .

You mean like when the Israelis pulled out of Gaza and the IDF forcibly removed Jewish settlers, but then Palestinians continued to launch rockets and mortars any way?

I'm not a fan of Israel, and I think a lot of the US problems with the Muslim population of the world are due to our policy towards Israel, but give me a freakin break. You can't ridicule one side for spewing propaganda, then write stuff like that yourself.

Also, for all those whining about civilian casualties in Gaza, yes they're tragic and highly regrettable. On the other hand, if your enemy is putting rocket launchers and mortars in civilian buildings and firing them indiscriminately into civilian areas (not even _pretending_ to aim for military installations), how exactly would you respond without killing any civilians? Put another way, if one side of a conflict intentionally surrounds it's weapons with civilians, should the other side just give up? -- chort ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 12:28:44 +0000 From: "Some Guy Posting To Full Disclosure" <fd.leach@googlemail.com> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] CCIE makes u go nuts?? or is that only nuts get CCIE???? To: "Joel Jose" <joeljose420@gmail.com> Cc: full-disclosure <full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk> Message-ID: <197321660901040428i7d708f5dx37cec88d8bcd7a5f@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I don't get why this is news. Murder happens all the time. Has he even been found guilty yet? True it looks like it is, but just look at that news article! You can perve on some poor guys destruction because it makes great news. I remember this happened a few years back to someone else and the guy was found innocent, despite the way the news channels made it look. On 1/3/09, Joel Jose <joeljose420@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/35713
>
> It scares the hell out of me..... when i read the topics...and try to
> learn.... i cant help my mind and heart doubting...when will my name
> come in a news like that...... maaannnn... 8 years in cisco... a voice
> architect..... hmmmmm... i was wanting to become like that.... without
> the twists that is... ;(... its scary....
> >
> lemme see ur responses....
> >
> Joel.
> --
> "it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your
> years." Abraham Lincoln
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> -- I'm your best best friend. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 00:27:35 -0500 From: "j-f sentier" <j.sentiar@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine To: full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk Message-ID: <6f80feaf0901042127p5ad20591ged48fa177d2a221c@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Well Israel is a very young "nation", in 61 years of existence, they have been in war with all of them neighborhood, Egypt, Syria, Liban,Jordan, Palestine. If someone can find an explication that makes sens, i'll take it. Also Mr pro-sionist (Avraham Schneider) i dont believe in god nowaday but i've readed the bible twice and the torah once, so i'm able to segfault your pro-sionist brain: "At least 178 Jews and persons of half- or three-quarters-Jewish ancestry have been awarded the Nobel Prize,1 accounting for 23% of all individual recipients worldwide between 1901 and 2008, and constituting 37% of all US recipients2 during the same period. In the scientific research fields of Chemistry, Economics, Medicine, and Physics, the corresponding world and US percentages are 27% and 40%, respectively. (Jews currently make up approximately 0.25% of the world's population and 2% of the US population.) Considering Jews are testifying to the existence of G-d - I would say it is hard to make your claim under these results..." Speaking of which god and religion: jewish says: God have elected,chosen the jewish people (it's written in the Torah.) Dont forget one thing, the jewish people were also banned and condemned by this very same god to have pain and no home for 2000 years. Because of what ? same thing here, you want always more than we give you. And even if some son of god would come on this earth one day, you (sionnist guys) wont be able to reconnize him or you would kill him again, because you always thought you we're more intelligent than anyone around (which is a fundamental mistake). Also once you're not happy on something you play the card of the second world war deportation at any times, but hey, you're not the belly-button of the world, dont forget that Gipsys, black people, gay, arab, and everything that didn't have blond hair and blue eyes were also killed, this is real history no propaganda. All this sionist story is pathetic, they make more than one "land hold-up" in the front of the world and no one say nothing, because they're jew. Wassup if Iran (for example) was the investigator of this, and would have provided this very same excuse than tsahal did ? No of course the occident wouldn't have let this happen or not on this tonality. it's pretty funny to see in many places in U-K some huge flag : "We support Israel." that remind me why they support so proudly israel : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine Btw i'm not antisemite i like jews, i'm just anti-sionist :) Cheers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.grok.org.uk/pipermail/full-disclosure/attachments/20090105/d213 7757/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 15:59:33 -0600 From: Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists@tx.rr.com> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine To: full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk Message-ID: <DF60E376FFD5914AC0D9AD6D@Macintosh-2.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed --On January 4, 2009 4:44:57 AM -0600 Mainbox Notif <rokadeana@gmail.com> wrote:
> They just want their country back. Thats all.
> It seems that Israeli want to have more, and more. And more.
> Israelis build settlements outside the borders of Israel.
>
> In History there where made some appointments which part belongs to the
> Israeli and which to the Palestinian.
> But it seems that the Israeli want more. Thats are not very thankful, he?
> Please stay between your own borders!
>
> Thats what the Palestinians want.
> And I can understand them. They have to fight back. I should do the same.
> The Israelis were attacked by all their surrounding neighbors back in the 60's and they beat them all. Since then they have been giving more and more ground to Palestine, yet the Palestinians continue to attack them. In 2005 they turned Gaza over to the Palestinians. The thanks they got was thousands and thousands of rocket and mortar attacks. The Palestinians are *not* fighting back. They are the aggressors. No matter how much land Israel gives up, the Palestinians will continue to attack them, because their goal is to annihilate the country. Please stop acting as if the Palestinians are poor, innocent bystanders being attacked for no reason. They are not. Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. ****************************************** WARNING: Check the headers before replying ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:18:49 -0600 From: Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists@tx.rr.com> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The (net)war in Palestine To: "Fabio Pietrosanti (naif)" <lists@infosecurity.ch>, full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk Message-ID: <EEF7D3B16CEC5F6CFE71812F@Macintosh-2.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed --On January 4, 2009 10:27:19 AM -0600 "Fabio Pietrosanti (naif)" <lists@infosecurity.ch> wrote: >
> Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman wrote:
>> Yeah, take all these crap out of a full-disclousure, IT security >> mailing list, please...
> To keep the discussion on topic, what do you think about the israel
> ability to professionaly arrange national-wide SMS spamming to border
> countries?
>
> http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/2008/12/israeli-telephone-commandos-strike.
> html
> Interesting. At the bottom of Paul's post there is a note. Note: There are no verifiable external resources listed to support this claim. -ferg IOW, this may or may not be true. Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. ****************************************** WARNING: Check the headers before replying ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:20:29 -0600 From: Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists@tx.rr.com> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine To: full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk Cc: Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman <buanzo@buanzo.com.ar> Message-ID: <000F0D008D5DC6ECB80F5E3C@Macintosh-2.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed --On January 4, 2009 10:05:15 AM -0600 Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman <buanzo@buanzo.com.ar> wrote: >
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> The bloodshed is caused by idiot people, motherfuckers and things like
> that. Stop the damn religion
> of bein g an excuse for your country's desires, ok? Ig god existed, he'd
> probably be thinking about
> nuking the hell out of Earth.
> God exists, but he doesn't need to think about doing this. Mankind will do it for him. Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. ****************************************** WARNING: Check the headers before replying ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 22:05:18 -0600 From: Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists@tx.rr.com> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine To: full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk Message-ID: <D3B114099952429DF5D0CAAA@Macintosh-2.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed --On January 4, 2009 4:18:52 PM -0600 Mainbox Notif <rokadeana@gmail.com> wrote:
> [quote]
> Since then they have been giving more and more ground to Palestine (...)
> [/quote]
>
> It seems that you don' t read the newspapers.
That's correct. I don't read newspapers. Most of them lie more than they tell the truth.
> Do you really know what is happening there?
Well, I'm not there, so I'm sure I don't know everything that's going on. Where are you?
> A fact is that it is the opposite: They (the Israeli) have been giving
> less and less ground to the Palestine Country.
> Your comment makes no sense at all. Israel just turned over Gaza to the Palestinians in 2005. Please be specific. What land do you contend that the Israelis have taken in the past three years?
> Do you read the newspapers? Do you see the news on the TV?
I don't watch TV news. They lie constantly. I get my news by reading sites on the internet, constantly, daily. I look at source documents and read stuff that many people find boring but lacks the emotional bs you find in the major news sites.
> I was suspecting that you had more brains.....
I don't know how you would know what brains I have. You've never met me. Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. ****************************************** WARNING: Check the headers before replying ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 22:15:49 -0600 From: Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists@tx.rr.com> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine To: full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk Message-ID: <4831DFEBCBBACCBDA358B202@Macintosh-2.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed --On January 4, 2009 5:20:05 PM -0600 Mainbox Notif <rokadeana@gmail.com> wrote:
> Before this topic I could not imagine that there was a man who is
> against the palestinian.
> Really? Not one single man? I dare say you can find several men who would be opposed to any subject you raised, regardless of how controversial it may be. In the case of the middle east it would be trivial to find thousands.
> I read my newspapers, I see the news, daily. So I know 'something'
> about the war which was started by the israeli.
What you "know" is what they tell you, which is to say you know very little about what it actually going on.
> I 'm graduated, so I can say, I'm not ' the stupid guy'. I read my
> books, and I am intereseted in history, filosofy and more.
> Yet you believe the newspapers and tv. How odd.
> The israeli people are not very populair. History shows that.
If what you say is true, then would it not be logical to assume that the news might be biased against Israel? After all, if they're not all that popular, wouldn't journalists have a built-in reason to not cast them in a good light?
> In 1948
> some ppl helped them, but the israeli screwed it up. That can happen.
> But nobody heard a ' sorry' . And that makes the israeli ' not very
> populair'. (lets say it nice)
> I'm not sure I follow you here.
> In this topic I read some stories from ppl who believe that the israeli
> invasion is right. Before this I could not imagine that. I did never met
> a person with that evil thoughts.
> So you think it's evil to shoot back when someone is shooting at you? Hopefully you live in a peaceful area. In some areas of the world you wouldn't last an hour.
> I'm confused.
> That I can agree with.
> All others know that israel is a agressor. It is since they get a part
> of Palestine.
> (The Palestines did not had a choise, they had to give a part of their
> country away)
> Once again, there was no Palestine for the "Palestinians" to give away. The Ottomans ruled it until WWI. Then the British took control. Then the UN decided to give Israel some land there and leave the rest to the people who had settled there. The so-called Palestinians didn't even exist except as a collection of people of various origins that shared a common geographical area.
> What I want to say is this: I can not imagine that anyone can say that
> the israeli are doing right.
> When they where thankful, then there was never a palestinian who drops a
> bomb or became a suicide-bomber.
> Plainly wrong, but obviously not worth pursuing. Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. ****************************************** WARNING: Check the headers before replying ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:12:49 -0600 From: Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists@tx.rr.com> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine To: full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk Message-ID: <7D2B746D92B92EDB8DDFCDB3@Macintosh-2.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed --On January 4, 2009 1:25:29 PM -0600 Mainbox Notif <rokadeana@gmail.com> wrote: >
> So, mr. Paul Schmehl,
> Can you tell me why the israelian want to have more and more? After they
> get a gift for their ppl?
What is the "more and more" that you claim they want?
> That's what frustrating me the most.
> If you get something as a gift. And still want to have more.
> That's not very thankful....
> Israeli are still guests. And welcome.
> No, they are not guests. They have their country. The Palestinians have theirs.
> When you (or someone else) can give me a good answer, I wil think again.
>
> Since they want to have more and more, they occupy more land surround
> them . ( the homes of innocent Palestinian ppl) .
> Palestinians are not innocent. Please stop saying that. They freely elected Hamas knowing full well what their agenda is. Yasser Arafat was an Egyptian (actually named Abd al-Rahman abd al-Bauf Arafat al-Qud al-Husseini) who emigrated to Palestine. He was related to the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Mohammad Amin al-Husayni, who was a good friend of Adolph Hitler and approved of his goal to exterminate the Jews. The Palestinians have never renounced that goal. In fact they refuse to renounce that goal. Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. ****************************************** WARNING: Check the headers before replying ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:31:34 +0200 From: "Avraham Schneider" <avri.schneider@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine To: "Prototype This" <terminale@gmail.com> Cc: full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu Message-ID: <cd51a8c60901042231k214649bcub1ab3f78fd9fa399@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 1:41 AM, Prototype This <terminale@gmail.com> wrote:
> A flame war never kill children and women. You dont receive a Flame
> email while you are sleeping or your 2 month old child get killed by
> it. If you dont want flame war you can always quit. With real war ,
> you cannot. Even there no Mortar Filter or Bullet Catcher in real
> life.
> Personally i filter the n3tshit and ureleet email so i dont read their
> bullshit anymore. But tell me how could Palestinian do that (filter
> bomb from Isralis bomber to hit an hospital) ? 3000 victims and
> counting.
Easily. They should stop firing rockets on innocent Israeli citizens, stop sending suicide bombers targeting innocent Israeli citizens, and in general stop terrorizing innocent Israeli citizens. At that point, Israel as a country, would not need to use force against the terror organizations, to defend it's citizens from those daily attacks. Keep in mind that Israel is targeting terrorists and is saddned by the injury or death of civilians - with Hamas (the elect government of the Palestinian people, with over 90% of the votes), they are shamelessly targetting civilians. The fact that Israel is so strong counts for the number of dead on the Palestinian side. Did you ever stop to think about it? If Israel was really targeting civilian population, what would have stopped it from just leveling the whole Gaza strip? You think Israel can't do that? It can, but it cares about the Palestinian civilian population. When there is no choice, there is no choice - Israel has to defend it's own civilian population as a first priority. Let me tell you a little of the latest events - 1) IDF calls a family in Gaza, to let them know they are about to bomb the house from the air - demanding that the family members leave immediately. (the IDF had inteligence that weapons were stored in that family's house) 2) Family members climb to the roof of the house as they know the IDF pilots would not want to harm civilians 3) The IDF pilot fires a rocket to the corner of the roof, making it clear that if they don't leave, they will die, 4) The family get the point and run away 5) House is fired at 6) Explosions ocur due to ammunition and rockets stored there. > > >
> 2009/1/4 <Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu>:
> > On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:22:00 +0200, Avraham Schneider said:
> >> Not interested in continuing - was just responding to cheap propaganda
> >> started by an idiot.
> >
> > You people can't even agree to stop a flame war.
> It's not a flame war - it's an off-topic propaganda started by a Muslim and defended by a Jew. Just add the subject to a filter rule in Outlook/gmail/whatever client you use, and forget about it. >
> >
> > How do you expect the Israelis and Palestinians to stop a *real* war?
> I thought you don't care about this subject as it is off-topic - why are you asking this question? >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.grok.org.uk/pipermail/full-disclosure/attachments/20090105/3d95 b1d7/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:51:25 +0200 From: "Avraham Schneider" <avri.schneider@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine To: "Mainbox Notif" <rokadeana@gmail.com> Cc: full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk, Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists_nada@tx.rr.com> Message-ID: <cd51a8c60901042251m6dcfe098keee464502c5a832@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 1:20 AM, Mainbox Notif <rokadeana@gmail.com> wrote:
> Before this topic I could not imagine that there was a man who is against
> the palestinian.
We are against terrorits, not against the Palestinians - they are victims like us - we both have Hamas to blame for. > >
> I read my newspapers, I see the news, daily. So I know 'something' about
> the war which was started by the israeli.
Was started by Hamas, with it's daily rocket fire on Sderot (innocent Israeli civilan population) >
> I 'm graduated, so I can say, I'm not ' the stupid guy'. I read my books,
> and I am intereseted in history, filosofy and more.
I think some would disagree with you on your conclusion. > >
> The israeli people are not very populair. History shows that. In 1948 some
> ppl helped them, but the israeli screwed it up. That can happen. But
nobody
> heard a ' sorry' . And that makes the israeli ' not very populair'. (lets
> say it nice)
Israelis won a war started by all Arab counties surrounding it - how that translates to 'screwd it up' baffles me. > >
> In this topic I read some stories from ppl who believe that the israeli
> invasion is right. Before this I could not imagine that. I did never met a
> person with that evil thoughts.
I think you should open up the dictionary and reevaluate your understanding of the word evil. I think you got it confused with 'self defense' - and if you never met such a person, I guess you live in another planet. > >
> I'm confused.
Welcome to earth. > >
> In my opinion you can only have this evil thoughts when:
> 1/ you live in Israel (then you see only one side of the story)
> 2/ you live in a country wich is against the jewish people and have a
> censored press. (both are bad, IMO)
> 3/ ????
After you understand that you are misusing the word evil, and should have used the words 'self defense' instead, I think you will be less 'confused'. > >
> All others know that israel is a agressor.
"Another one-way cease-fire that leads to rocket attacks on Israel is not acceptable," said the President in the Saturday address. "And promises from Hamas will not suffice."
> It is since they get a part of Palestine.
> (The Palestines did not had a choise, they had to give a part of their
> country away)
Was nevery their country yet Israel gave it to them on a silver plate as part of the Oslo agreements (supported by the extorsionist formula of land-for-peace) > >
> What I want to say is this: I can not imagine that anyone can say that the
> israeli are doing right.
It will be very hard for me to comment on what you can or can not imagine. >
> When they where thankful, then there was never a palestinian who drops a
> bomb or became a suicide-bomber.
What about the suicide bombers targetting and killing Israeli women and children? > >
> For all the jewish people: You can live there together. You can live in
the
> Palestinian country. But always remember: You get this country from the
> palestinian. Be thankful. And do not ask more.
> And, do not take more!
Repeating lies don't make them true. > > > >
> 2009/1/4 Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists@tx.rr.com>
> >> --On January 4, 2009 1:25:29 PM -0600 Mainbox Notif <rokadeana@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> >>> So, mr. Paul Schmehl, >>> Can you tell me why the israelian want to have more and more? After they >>> get a gift for their ppl? >>> >> >> What is the "more and more" that you claim they want? >> >> That's what frustrating me the most. >>> If you get something as a gift. And still want to have more. >>> That's not very thankful.... >>> Israeli are still guests. And welcome. >>> >>> >> No, they are not guests. They have their country. The Palestinians have >> theirs. >> >> When you (or someone else) can give me a good answer, I wil think again. >>> >>> Since they want to have more and more, they occupy more land surround >>> them . ( the homes of innocent Palestinian ppl) . >>> >>> >> Palestinians are not innocent. Please stop saying that. They freely >> elected Hamas knowing full well what their agenda is. Yasser Arafat was an >> Egyptian (actually named Abd al-Rahman abd al-Bauf Arafat al-Qud >> al-Husseini) who emigrated to Palestine. He was related to the Grand Mufti >> of Jerusalem, Mohammad Amin al-Husayni, who was a good friend of Adolph >> Hitler and approved of his goal to exterminate the Jews. The Palestinians >> have never renounced that goal. In fact they refuse to renounce that goal. >> >> >> Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already >> obvious, my opinions are my own >> and not those of my employer. >> ****************************************** >> WARNING: Check the headers before replying >> >> >
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
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> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.grok.org.uk/pipermail/full-disclosure/attachments/20090105/151b d1cd/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:25:30 -0800 From: - o z - <osgo@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine To: full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk Message-ID: <BAY101-DAV1205BE65F8A81E70F3857EDBE10@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes On Jan 4, 2009, at 10:31 PM, Avraham Schneider wrote:
> When there is no choice, there is no choice - Israel has to defend
> it's own
> civilian population as a first priority.
>
> Let me tell you a little of the latest events -
>
> 1) IDF calls a family in Gaza, to let them know they are about to
> bomb the
> house from the air - demanding that the family members leave
> immediately.
> (the IDF had inteligence that weapons were stored in that family's
> house)
> 2) Family members climb to the roof of the house as they know the
> IDF pilots
> would not want to harm civilians
> 3) The IDF pilot fires a rocket to the corner of the roof, making it
> clear
> that if they don't leave, they will die,
> 4) The family get the point and run away
> 5) House is fired at
> 6) Explosions ocur due to ammunition and rockets stored there.
Correction #3: The MC actually dispatched MIGCAP to fire 20mm cannon, not 'rocket' -- at the next building over. The kill ratio from a rocket's shrapnel would have killed anyone on the roof, hence, 20mm fire to ward off the family and scare the dickens out of them so they would bail from the structure. #4: Family found Jesus right away, no, Common Sense...and bailed from the roof. #5: Cool fireworks display courtesy of your local IDF #6: Kudos to family for making a media moment of defiance, but it was really time to leave before someone was killed. >> >> 2009/1/4 <Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu>: >>> >>> You people can't even agree to stop a flame war. >>
> It's not a flame war - it's an off-topic propaganda started by a
> Muslim and
> defended by a Jew.
> Just add the subject to a filter rule in Outlook/gmail/whatever
> client you
> use, and forget about it.
Defended by two Jews now, Mazel tov!!!! -- ?Condoleezza Rice is a very cruel, offended woman who lacks men's attention. She needs to be taken to a company of man-soldiers and it would be just fine. Releasing such stupid remarks gives her the feeling of being fulfilled. This is the only way for her to attract men's attention. Show me that Rice is a woman? The only thing she attracts is reindeer. The States needs to practice the old Soviet tradition when both single women and single men were not allowed to take responsible state positions..." --Vladimir Zhirinovsky, Russian politician, rabid leader of the Liberal and Democratic Party of Russia (LDPR) ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:17:25 +0200 From: "Avraham Schneider" <avri.schneider@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine To: "- o z -" <osgo@hotmail.com> Cc: full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk Message-ID: <cd51a8c60901050017v13e0fc62i442ed93643d4323d@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:25 AM, - o z - <osgo@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 4, 2009, at 10:31 PM, Avraham Schneider wrote:
>
> When there is no choice, there is no choice - Israel has to defend it's
>> own >> civilian population as a first priority. >> >> Let me tell you a little of the latest events - >> >> 1) IDF calls a family in Gaza, to let them know they are about to bomb the >> house from the air - demanding that the family members leave immediately. >> (the IDF had inteligence that weapons were stored in that family's house) >> 2) Family members climb to the roof of the house as they know the IDF >> pilots >> would not want to harm civilians >> 3) The IDF pilot fires a rocket to the corner of the roof, making it clear >> that if they don't leave, they will die, >> 4) The family get the point and run away >> 5) House is fired at >> 6) Explosions ocur due to ammunition and rockets stored there. >> >
> Correction #3: The MC actually dispatched MIGCAP to fire 20mm cannon,
> not 'rocket' -- at the next building over. The kill ratio from a
rocket's
> shrapnel
> would have killed anyone on the roof, hence, 20mm fire to ward off the
> family
> and scare the dickens out of them so they would bail from the structure.
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1052034.html The IDF Spokesman said that Ghayan's house had served as a weapons silo and a war room for Hamas. Under the house, according to the IDF, was a tunnel which was meant to serve as an escape route in case of an Israeli attack. . . . The IDF has code named such operations "roof knocking," in which the army informs the residents of s suspected building that they have 10 minutes to leave the premises. In some cases, residents of suspected houses have been able to prevent bombing by climbing up to the roof to show that they will not leave, prompting IDF commanders to call off the strike. In these cases, Channel 10 reported Thursday, the IAF sometimes launches a relatively harmless missile at the corner of the roof, avoiding casualties but successfully dispersing the crowd. . . . It appears that the "roof knocking" technique was used in the assassination, but Ghayan decided to stay indoors with his family, and the army opted to bomb the house anyway. A lecturer at Gaza's Islamic University, Ghayan, 49, had mentored suicide bombers and would sometimes go on patrol with Hamas fighters. He was known for his close ties to the group's military wing and was respected in Gaza for donning combat fatigues and personally participating in clashes against Israeli forces. He sent one of his sons on an October 2001 suicide mission that killed two Israeli settlers in Gaza. >
> #4: Family found Jesus right away, no, Common Sense...and bailed from the
> roof.
>
> #5: Cool fireworks display courtesy of your local IDF
>
> #6: Kudos to family for making a media moment of defiance, but it was
> really time
> to leave before someone was killed.
> > >>> 2009/1/4 <Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu>: >>> >>>> >>>> You people can't even agree to stop a flame war. >>>> >>> >>> It's not a flame war - it's an off-topic propaganda started by a Muslim >> and >> defended by a Jew. >> Just add the subject to a filter rule in Outlook/gmail/whatever client you >> use, and forget about it. >> >
> Defended by two Jews now, Mazel tov!!!!
Thanks for the help. >
> --
> > > >
> "Condoleezza Rice is a very cruel, offended woman who lacks men's
> attention. She needs to be taken to a company of man-soldiers and it would
> be just fine. Releasing such stupid remarks gives her the feeling of being
> fulfilled. This is the only way for her to attract men's attention. Show
me
> that Rice is a woman? The only thing she attracts is reindeer. The States
> needs to practice the old Soviet tradition when both single women and
single
> men were not allowed to take responsible state positions..."
>
> --Vladimir Zhirinovsky, Russian politician, rabid leader of the Liberal
> and Democratic Party of Russia (LDPR)
> > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.grok.org.uk/pipermail/full-disclosure/attachments/20090105/320a b96b/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:46:17 +0200 From: "Yudi Rosen" <yr42.lists@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine To: full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk Message-ID: <12395eaf0901050346h7513bb0aka4e7414ede029a38@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" It's interesting to note how the PA Palestinians in the West Bank are living peacefully - they're not launching attacks on Israeli citizens, and therefor aren't being attacked back by Israel. In fact, many of them have jobs within Israeli areas and receive benefits from the Israeli government (my source? I'm there right now, I've asked to both Jews and Arabs about this). Yet in Gaza, the ruling party (Hamas) has vowed not just to establish a Palestinian country, but also to destroy Israel and kill every last Jew. And they attempt to make good on their words by deliberately and specificly targeting civillians, even killing other Palestinians in the proccess. In order to defend it's own people (both Jews and Arabs), Israel launches this latest battle. THEN, (hoping to garner some sympathy for the Hamas cause, it seems?), several people start a flamefight on a IT-security mailing list. ...anyone see what doesn't make sense here? There are places to flame about this, FD doesn't seem like one of them. Please let's get back on topic? On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Avraham Schneider <avri.schneider@gmail.com
> wrote:
> >
> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:25 AM, - o z - <osgo@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Jan 4, 2009, at 10:31 PM, Avraham Schneider wrote: >> >> When there is no choice, there is no choice - Israel has to defend it's >>> own >>> civilian population as a first priority. >>> >>> Let me tell you a little of the latest events - >>> >>> 1) IDF calls a family in Gaza, to let them know they are about to bomb >>> the >>> house from the air - demanding that the family members leave immediately. >>> (the IDF had inteligence that weapons were stored in that family's house) >>> 2) Family members climb to the roof of the house as they know the IDF >>> pilots >>> would not want to harm civilians >>> 3) The IDF pilot fires a rocket to the corner of the roof, making it >>> clear >>> that if they don't leave, they will die, >>> 4) The family get the point and run away >>> 5) House is fired at >>> 6) Explosions ocur due to ammunition and rockets stored there. >>> >> >> Correction #3: The MC actually dispatched MIGCAP to fire 20mm cannon, >> not 'rocket' -- at the next building over. The kill ratio from a >> rocket's shrapnel >> would have killed anyone on the roof, hence, 20mm fire to ward off the >> family >> and scare the dickens out of them so they would bail from the structure. >
> http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1052034.html
> The IDF Spokesman said that Ghayan's house had served as a weapons silo
> and a war room for Hamas. Under the house, according to the IDF, was a
> tunnel which was meant to serve as an escape route in case of an Israeli
> attack.
> .
> .
> .
> The IDF has code named such operations "roof knocking," in which the army
> informs the residents of s suspected building that they have 10 minutes to
> leave the premises. In some cases, residents of suspected houses have been
> able to prevent bombing by climbing up to the roof to show that they will
> not leave, prompting IDF commanders to call off the strike. In these
cases,
> Channel 10 reported Thursday, the IAF sometimes launches a relatively
> harmless missile at the corner of the roof, avoiding casualties but
> successfully dispersing the crowd.
> .
> .
> .
> It appears that the "roof knocking" technique was used in the
> assassination, but Ghayan decided to stay indoors with his family, and the
> army opted to bomb the house anyway.
> A lecturer at Gaza's Islamic University, Ghayan, 49, had mentored suicide
> bombers and would sometimes go on patrol with Hamas fighters. He was known
> for his close ties to the group's military wing and was respected in Gaza
> for donning combat fatigues and personally participating in clashes
against
> Israeli forces. He sent one of his sons on an October 2001 suicide mission
> that killed two Israeli settlers in Gaza.
> > > >> >> #4: Family found Jesus right away, no, Common Sense...and bailed from the >> roof. >> >> #5: Cool fireworks display courtesy of your local IDF >> >> #6: Kudos to family for making a media moment of defiance, but it was >> really time >> to leave before someone was killed. >> >> >>>> 2009/1/4 <Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu>: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> You people can't even agree to stop a flame war. >>>>> >>>> >>>> It's not a flame war - it's an off-topic propaganda started by a Muslim >>> and >>> defended by a Jew. >>> Just add the subject to a filter rule in Outlook/gmail/whatever client >>> you >>> use, and forget about it. >>> >> >> Defended by two Jews now, Mazel tov!!!! >
> Thanks for the help.
> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> >> "Condoleezza Rice is a very cruel, offended woman who lacks men's >> attention. She needs to be taken to a company of man-soldiers and it would >> be just fine. Releasing such stupid remarks gives her the feeling of being >> fulfilled. This is the only way for her to attract men's attention. Show me >> that Rice is a woman? The only thing she attracts is reindeer. The States >> needs to practice the old Soviet tradition when both single women and single >> men were not allowed to take responsible state positions..." >> >> --Vladimir Zhirinovsky, Russian politician, rabid leader of the Liberal >> and Democratic Party of Russia (LDPR) >> >> >> >> >
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
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